This is exactly what I am seeing...my sixth grader get homes and starts homework at 4:30 pm every day. He is usually done by 7:30 but some nights it is 9 before he finishes.

THAT is absolutely ridiculous. I've never worked at the middle school or high school level--but don't they collaborate so the kids just have a little from a course or two each night? Or they could put the homework together cross-curricularly and make it MEAN something.

Umm, some of us have been fighting it since BEFORE it was enacted, Marcie.

I don't believe it should be reformed, I believe it should be ABOLISHED. Fundamentally flawed ideas aren't good candidates for reform.

Gid~

What do you think about state standards?

I know that most states base standards on national standards, but if we want kids to be competitive globally, I think there needs to be an overall national standards enactment that ALL states follow.

Umm, some of us have been fighting it since BEFORE it was enacted, Marcie. I don't believe it should be reformed, I believe it should be ABOLISHED. Fundamentally flawed ideas aren't good candidates for reform.

The point wasn't that it was "good." I honestly don't see it going away anytime soon. The point intended was that it's not a child's teacher's fault that students have to take all these tests. We're the puppets in the testing gig.

Do your children have to take these tests because they're homeschooled? I have no idea. Does it depend on the state?

It varies state to state. Because the state does not pay for our homeschool, however, the state has no business regulating it. And that's the way it should be.

I disagree as to the national standards, Marcie. Is it mere coincidence that our performance has declined overall and dropout rates increased AFTER these standards were put into place? The idea of bringing every child up to the average (the seeming goal of NCLB) is so fundamentally flawed that it would be laughable if it weren't for the fact that our EDUCATORS believe it to be possible! The only way you "leave no child behind" is if you set the bar so low every child can pass over it. Then, ironically, it is our best and brightest who suffer the worst.



Wrong, Marcie. It is the teacher's unions who have pushed these mandates, and these unions are made up of teachers. Want to fix the problems? Get some real leaders into your unions (or, better yet, abolish them altogether) and boot the socialists out!

The idea of bringing every child up to the average (the seeming goal of NCLB) is so fundamentally flawed that it would be laughable if it weren't for the fact that our EDUCATORS believe it to be possible! The only way you "leave no child behind" is if you set the bar so low every child can pass over it. Then, ironically, it is our best and brightest who suffer the worst.

Don't lump us all together. I think that expecting every child in our schools to be "proficient" by 2014 is crap. To expect all of our children to be proficient EVER is crap. I think it's torture to make a student with special needs take a days-long test, even with accomodations (I think it's torture to make ANY child do that, but especially kids with special needs). There's a reason we have resource rooms, LD programs, etc. And to have the expectation that a child with below-average intelligence can suddenly become a genius is to be living in la-la land. It's not reality.

And I agree--it is the students who need an extra challenge who don't get the services THEY need. I know *I* don't have enough training to feel comfortable challenging them in ways that will help them develop critical thinking skills and extend the learning that we're doing already in the classroom. I'm always looking for new information on how to do those things, but I don't feel like I do a good enough job with those kiddos. I'm cool with the ones that are WAY low, but the ones that read at a 4th grade level? Probably not so much.

Wrong, Marcie. It is the teacher's unions who have pushed these mandates, and these unions are made up of teachers. Want to fix the problems? Get some real leaders into your unions (or, better yet, abolish them altogether) and boot the socialists out!

I haven't worked for a district that has supported NCLB and all this testing crap. I'm all about accountability--I want to be held responsible for making sure that students are learning what they need to, but I think there are MUCH better ways to go about it than a fill-in-the-dot test. Our district just adopted a new reading program, and each week our students will be required (by the district, no less) to take a 16 page fill-in-the dot test. What a waste of time and paper. I found another alternate test that I think is more challenging and assesses the acquisition of the targeted literacy skills way better than that multiple choice paper waster. And there isn't a teacher at my school who doesn't think it's a crock. Hopefully we'll grouch about it not being good for kids enough that administration will actually realize that it blows.

It varies state to state. Because the state does not pay for our homeschool, however, the state has no business regulating it. And that's the way it should be.

I totally agree. I thought that when I worked in Minnesota that those students still had to take the standardized tests. (You should have your kids take them and blow the socks off the publicly-schooled kids...lol). But like you said, it varies from state to state.

Do you think there should be NO standards in place at all, or do you think there should be standards and they should be state or locally regulated?

Well, you need to kick your union reps out, Marcie. If the majority of educators in your district think it blows, it's time you make the union reps do their jobs.



I'm not in competition with the public schools, though. It would be pointless, and I don't believe in using my kids as pawns to make a political point.



I believe that if an educational institution is supported in any way by tax dollars, there should be accountability. I believe in a voucher system and doing away with the "public school" monopoly. I believe if a school doesn't compete on the market, let the decline in enrollment shut its doors.

you're blaming nclb on unions?

i'll never be able to listen to 'union maid' again without envisioning a barbara frietchie sorta woman with the facial features of former texas governor george you-know-who smiting armies of goons, finks and deputies with compulsory testing--until they agree to form consulting firms and accept large contracts to implement the program

They do that. There are three teams in the 6th grade. Three teachers and a helper are assigned to each team. All the kids on that team have only those three teachers. Those teachers work together, so say if they are studying Propaganda in Social Studies, then the Math and Science teachers also try to tie their stuff in with it.

Part of the problem is while it doesn't always "look" like a lot of homework, when you factor in most kids are still slow writers at this age...it takes for freaking ever.

In most subjects my son averages about 5 worksheets a night...after reading a chapter in a book or reading several pages of handouts he does the worksheets. That is no exaggeration. And this doesn't include long term assignments like book reports and science projects, OR studying time.

I go over them when he is done to make sure he is grasping the material. It takes me about thirty minutes to go through it all. And if there is an area he's not getting....whoa, there is war at our house. He doesn't want to correct anything, partly because he hates when I am right, and partly because hell, he just spend HOURS doing it...he's D-O-N-E. Put a fork in him.

Another thing....lots of kids who were getting straight A's in elementary are barely getting by this year. It's not because they are dumb...most of these kids have parents who work, and they don't have time to go over hours of homework. My son is smart but I still have to be available to him during the hours he's doing homework because most of the time he has questions.

Tova~

It sounds like stupid busywork. I can see assigning a little to review work done in class that day, but frying a student isn't going to make him or her yearn for more learning.

I'm sorry...

Well, you need to kick your union reps out, Marcie. If the majority of educators in your district think it blows, it's time you make the union reps do their jobs.

You're making an AWFUL lot of assumptions.

Not really. I'm fairly educated on the history of labor in this country, and I wouldn't give two cents for the entire crop of current union leaders in every industry, not just education.

What is the power of collective bargaining if it isn't put to use? Why do union leaders acquiesce so readily to things that are NOT in the best interests of the workers or their consumers (in your case, students).

The sad thing is, districts could do away with NCLB in one fell swoop. They'd need the community behind them, however, as it would require giving a finger to Washington (and in some cases, the state capitol) and refusing federal funds entirely. But we've gotten so dependent on the public trough that will never happen, sadly.

If we refuse to grow a backbone, though, it's hardly our legislators' fault!

Why do the kids need homework while that young?  If they are getting taught in school, why do they need homework each night?

I understand reading each night, as there isn't enough time in school to read, but why homework?

My daughter had homework every night last year.  It was a horrible year for her and she felt stressed all the time.  This year, she has a teacher that sends homework home once or twice a week.  My daughter has learned more with this teacher, isn't stressed, and can do her homework without help.

If you are teaching the kids in school, why do you need to send them home with yet another 1/2 hour of work? 

Repetition. We all learn from repetition. The HW is just disciplining the children by having them repeat what they have already learned in class. Quite often they may not "quite" get a new concept until they have done it over a few times.

The teachers on;y teach it once, then?

The current teacher that my daughter has is very good.  She goes over the same subject matter throughout the week, and attacks it from different angles.  My daughter has had very little homework.  The homework that she has had is very advanced, but she breezes right through it.

In contrast, last year she had a teacher that barely covered the subjects.  She had homework every day, and I was literally teaching her what she wasn't learning in school.

Sorry, but I don't think homework is that helpful and I don't see it as "discipline".  I see it as lazy teachers leaving part of their jobs up to the parents to complete.

I never had homework until i was in middle school.  Oddly enough, I still ended up OK.  Of course, back then, teachers were concerned more with teaching the kids than politics and standardized testing.

I teach things more than once, but honestly, lots of times, if a student doesn't understand something, a parent can put it in better terms than I can.